what do we know about terry jones? >> well, terry jones, the pastor you're referencing, he's the guy who threatened to burn the koran and set off death, frankly, in afghanistan, violence in afghanistan. he's believed to be involved somehow with this film. we hesitate even to use his name. >> exactly. exactly. how he manages to stay in the loop is beyond belief. it defies -- it defies explanation, really. you know, lee, you know, mark mckinnon's advice to both campaigns which will go unheeded, it does, i think, leave some of us with just a sinking feeling that the politics of this is going to explode in the next 24 hours. and it's not going to be healthy for anyone. >> very quickly, i think that's absolutely right. and you know, i think the lesson here is that, you know, this is a film that when we go back to our offices today, no one that we know has heard of this film. and yet it is center stage over there. so we forget that, you know, somebody out of left field can just create something, to donny's point, in this dig